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February 01, 2006

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Listed below are links to weblogs that reference What I Mean When I Say "Emerging-Missional" Church:

» Clarifying Emerging Missional Church from faithCommons.org
With all the hoopla and misunderstanding about emerging church, it's good to occasionally pause and look at some history of the concept and a description of what it's supposed to be, from one who's traveled the world working with and visiting with those [Read More]

» TSK defines Emerging/Missional Church from way out west
Really nice simple overview of the terms Emerging and Missional ... combined with a convincing call for the words to be used in conjunction from Andrew Jones... a good post to point questioners to... Thanks Andrew Technorati Tags: Blogging: [Read More]

» Andrew Jones: Emerging-Missional Church from PurplePastor.com
The TallSkinnyKiwis at it again, answering questions, provoking discussion, shaping the language of the emerging-missional church conversation. Im always grateful for Andrews thoughts. His deep appreciation and respe... [Read More]

» Emerging-Missional Church from Subversive Influence
Andrew Jones opines on the meaning of emerging-missional church which sparked a lot of linkage like a post from Brian Baute, who votes thumbs-up on the E-MC term. Potentially lots more to be said on the subject, but the Tall Skin... [Read More]

» A short primer on the Emerging Missional Church from Hismethod
Andrew Jones, Tall Skinny Kiwi and God father amongst the blogging Christians has posted a useful primer of the Emerging Missional Church and what it all means. If youve heard the term without sussing out the details, you really should have a r... [Read More]

» "Emerging-Missional" Church from Hey, Ya Know What?
TallSkinnyKiwi Andrew Jones posted yesterday about what he means when he talks about the Emerging-Missional Church. This is the kind of post and the kind of idea that gets me excited. It's not just an inward expression of church and [Read More]

» Emerging-Missional Church from uconnchurch.com: BLOG
Andrew Jones, aka TallSkinnyKiwi, posted earlier this week about what it means to be an "emerging-missional" church. I agree with Andrew that we must be both together -- and that the two ideas go hand-in-hand. Check out his post and... [Read More]

» Having a Hard Time Figuring Out "The Emerging Church?" from two and two makes five
Let's face it - nobody knows what anyone means by the term "emerging church." For some, it's the world's biggest heresy since Gnosticism (or the "Left Behind" series - take your pick), and to others it's the greatest thing since [Read More]

» What is the Emerging Church? from emeRging :: conneXion
:: Definitions: Alt worship emerging church :: alternativeworship.org :: :: Emerging Church :: Wikipedia :: :: The Emerging Church :: Ancient Faith for a Postmodern World :: Marcia Ford :: :: Nine core practices of emerging churches :: Summary ... [Read More]

» February 23, 2006 from Best of the GodBlogs
Do you remember that classic scene in The Princess Bride where the priest lisps, "BestGodBlogs.com is what brings us together" ? It probably didn't make much sense to you at the time, but it will after you read our first... [Read More]

» February 23, 2006 from Best of the GodBlogs
Do you remember that classic scene in The Princess Bride where the priest lisps, "BestGodBlogs.com is what brings us together" ? It probably didn't make much sense to you at the time, but it will after you read our first... [Read More]

» Having a Hard Time Figuring Out "The Emerging Church?" from two and two makes five
Let's face it - nobody knows what anyone means by the term "emerging church." For some, it's the world's biggest heresy since Gnosticism (or the "Left Behind" series - take your pick), and to others it's the greatest thing since [Read More]

Comments

geoff

helpful post, andrew. thanks. i think i started using this "emerging-missional..." tag after hanging out with Hirschy when i was home (melbourne) in '03. i hope it catches on...

Mark Berry

Andrew, I think this is a nice little summary! One think I would say is that in the Uk I think the story "begins" with a period of reflection and deconstruction in the mid-90's... people like Dave Tomlinson and John Drane (and later Tom Sine, Michael Moynagh etc) began to wonder just how had the modern linear church moved so far away from the prevailing culture. (I guess the community that nurtured the reflection was Greenbelt and alot of the reflection was instigated by a sense of distance from the Charismatic renewal movement - Toronto etc.) Other factors at the time may well have been the "emergence" of Alt.worship and the effects (good and bad) of The Nine O'Clock Service... offering partial solutions to a growing sence of frustration and dissatisfaction with the Christendom Model.

Tim Keller

Probably should add--non-prickly statement of faith.

andrew

Mark - good UK additonal summary!!! - thanks. wish we had time for a fuller history

Tim - yes - points don't need to be prickly, sola-ng as they dont cut those who hold alternative views.

riddick jesup

Andrew,
I just wanted to thank you for your discourse regarding the whole homosexuality dicussion. Also, I appreciate your summary in this post. I was able to read an excerpt from Mark Driscoll's new book and he used some of the same verbiage (emerging-missional) It is good to see some definitions and history. It helps those of us who are navigating the waters

Ed C

I've always thought that having emerging ideas without mission is incomplete. Yet, your post shows how it's not just a chicken and the egg matter (one has priority or must be in place first), but a matter of weaving. The two are woven together into the same garment.

"Emerging" and "Mission" are woven together, two sides of the same coin, cream and coffee, peanut butter and jelly, Andrew and Jones. You can't have one without the other.

Dave

Thanks Andrew. Your explanation of the combination term emerging-missional is incredibly helpful. So often the two terms have been used interchangeably in a speakers mind to mean the same thing.

Blessings brother.

Laura

I'm just beginning to take a serious dip in the deeper end of the ecclesial-missional theology pool, playing with the idea of an ecclesiology of heaven.

Thanks for the context and the sources. Now for the time to read...

andrew

great - the wedding feast is a great place to start

protestant missions was driven by eschatology a century ago but has fallen out of conversation. time to take another look

let me know what you come up with!

The Hippo Critic

Is it just me that is saddened that "missional church" is not immediately thought of as a tautology? It's the one adjective that should be so self evident as to be redundant when applied to the Church. I suppose it's inevitable that it's not when the pastor-teacher is the de facto model for church leadership and is usually elevated above the other gifts. So "missional" is right - we do need reminded that's what it's all about.

Geoff Pick

The Whale in the River Thames - London

A Sign to the Nation
January 21, 2006

See the sign coming into your City of London.
See the sign to the City.
See the creature that I sent to deliver my prophetic messenger.
See the sign of my messenger declared over your nation.

I am sending evangelists and am raising up voices, and am causing the shift towards the Kingdom of my Son over your land.

The experts gather to ask what are we going to do to rescue the whale, but My call is to this nation, what shall you do with My son?

How will you respond to His call on your nation?

As Jonah went proclaiming destruction on the wicked City, My call is return to your destiny, the calling upon your land. And remember saints long ago prevailed and turned the nation.

But no man can turn my purposes and call.
I will raise up Jonah’s in your land and cause the city to bow to my throne,
and choose to serve My purposes.
For the Kingdom of My Son shall reign over this land.

Via Geoff Pick
For the News story of the London Whale ...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4631396.stm

http://www.ourchurch.com/member/p/propheticwords/

- - -


"Where can I run from your presence?"
Tim Cook 24th January 2006

My Jonahs ..... I love you and I hug you ... and I whisper to you that you shall not run, you shall not run. Already are you blessing your Ninevahs. Look - I find a passing whale and send her to sacrifice right on the doorstep of your capital. Can you now be encouraged - have I got your attention? Oh this is for you my beautiful Jonahs. Your feet are beautiful as they bring good news. Thankyou for feeling sad for my whale Britain - this is a tender place in your nations heart - a good and innocent thing. For I called her from the oceans - I called her in - I sung her in - and gave her to you, Jonah. My scared, and trembling, and struggling Jonah prophets - the young at heart. This is for you - for you are safe in my mighty hands - I have you - in the centre of my will - and you know that there is nowhere to run from my presence. You shall not hide and run this year, but I will pour my gentle boldness upon you - and such love, such love - that you will find the strength to minister - and speak to the lost - and to soldier on. You who were about to fall, and planning how to walk away with your head lowered in defeat? I shortcut you into unexpected victories - and dance a victory dance over you. You who were planning to be swallowed up in the depths and in the fish? Well - here is your whale .... you don't need it. She gives herself up - saying I will take you down no more. You see - I won't let you down. My love sustains you. It will surround you like your cloak. For you - there is no whale. Jonah needs no detours, no escapes, no whale.
Tim Cook
http://www.ourchurch.com/member/i/inspiredlight/

- - -

More Prophetic Insight on the Whale
Heather Butler

Whales sing, and they call, and they cross the oceans to find each other, and now I'm crying because this is revelation to me as I type, you have heard the cry of our hearts, the lord has sent you out to find that sound, and to sing to us that song of the lord, he has brought you out of the depths and into a place where you are exposed and its dangerous, but you have died to self to enable us to have life in this nation.

oh lord thank you thank you for that picture of your faithfulness to us to send messengers into this place across the oceans and into the shallows of our lives as we seek you in this land. Hallelujah lord!

ok, here are the word I was given and the meanings. I didnt know before hand what I would find, but it speaks for itself. We are looking at the meaning of the Whale.

1. Yam
2. ata
3. leveth

1 = large body of water, the mediteranean or LARGE RIVER
2 = Close up - shut up
3 = abide with, cleave to, unite, adhesion, join to.

The Whale came from the sea into the large river, it was shut up closed in there, if you look at the word to jerry about the whale a picture of cleaving to us, uniting joining with us.

I asked for a bible passage, I got page 1010 which is Isaiah 8 from verses 6 - 18 in this passage you will see the flood that other prophetic words speaks of, and it looks very bleak, but read on and you will see that this is not to be feared, that the lord is with them.

I believe that there are righteous people in the land and across the waters that have raised a standard in this nation and the lord has heard that voice.

http://www.ourchurch.com/member/k/keys/

Scot McKnight

Andrew,
Once again -- a nice post out of your wisdom and perspective. Helpful. Maybe a little more on what "missional" means -- as it tends to be much more emphatically holistic on this side of the water.

And, do you agree with me that some are more emerging-ancient/future than emerging-missional? Seems that way to me: some focus more on worship style.

Tim Keller

Food for thought.
Missional: A church whose witness to Christ is mainly out in the society where it incarnates the gospel in community and individual lives, entering yet retelling the culture’s story, showing how in Jesus its hopes, themes, and plot-lines can will a happy ending.

andrew

great sentence, tim. now if it acknowledged the Trinity by containing a reference to the Spirit . . .

andrew

scott - yes. many have joined in by copying what they saw without understanding the missional approach that justified it.

sad, but understandable.

Mike

Andrew, thank you for the wise overview. It's helpful.

Alan Hirsch

And long may the TallSkinnyKing rule over the Emerging-Missional-Church.

Thanks Andrew for the great post. My sentiments exactly.

andrew

Alan, it was partly you and mike i was referring to when i said the Australians prefer the term

thanks for your persistance in preserving it and for your excellent book "Shaping of Things to Come"

Tim Bailey

oh, this is good.
i think many of us in Canada think the same way.
Thanks.

Brandon

A very helpful summary, Andrew. Thanks for continuing to bring clarity to the big picture in these things.

Do you think it could also be said that without missional, emergent is just another attempt to take the controls of Christianity in a Christendom/Protestant (i.e., protesting) manner? Darrel Guder makes a point in one of his books that the reformation did not actually change many of the patterns inherited by "the Constaninian turn."

Could it be that without the missional, emergent, though helpful, is not enough to bring the church back around to it's roots of being the catalyst of change in the world that Jesus meant for it to be?

Just some things that I'm chewing on these days. Thanks again for your thoughts. As soon as I finish the last story in "Dubliners," I'm picking up "Shaping of Things to Come," with full expectation of further challenge, wisdom, and blog fodder. =)

Alan Hirsch

Seriously Andrew, I think your voice needs to move beyond blogging and into a book. I think you have so much to offer. I want to encourage you to gather your energies and gift us. Please! Your fan.

andrew

alan

i am writing a book - have been for a number of years. it keeps getting bigger

later this year i hope to release something.

thanks for the encouragement.

andrew

brandon

i think the church needs to contantly reexamine its roots and the new context in light of the unchanging gospel.

Tiffany

Thanks for the great thoughts, Andrew. I am newer to the "emerging conversation," but I deeply resonate with the church being missional where "the emphasis is put on God's mission rather than ours - we participate with the Triune God in what he is doing..." It's all about being God and others-centered. Thanks.

RC

I like the conversation...I think that what you write is great...I certainly see too many churches that are emerging with out being missional...or missional while...well, not emerging.

I should ponder putting this termanology together in my vocublary more.

--RC of strangeculture.blogspot.com

blind beggar

Great post Andrew. Emerging does not equal missional and I so I like your term emerging-missional. For me, being a missional people is so important!

jazztheologian

My friend,

Given that you are in the UK you may not know this. But in America, Emerging and Missional, terms I resonate with, also means "Primarily young white Christians." Any thoughts as to why postmodern Christianity is still hanging on to such a modern vestige?

love your blog,
jt

andrew

hi jazztheologian - just found this comment.

Given that I am no longer based in USA - as I was for the previous decade, I may not know that or other interesting facts. But I would say that the white middle class church experienced more fragmentation during modernity than did the black or hispanic churches and therefore have a greater adjustment to make.

but the emerging church in USA is actually more colorful and diverse than it seems on the surface. Its just that books ending up at the local Christian bookstore are usually written by one particular demographic. This is unfortunate.

Steve Hayes

Thanks for this post, which helped to clarify some thing that I've been wondering about for some time.

I still have some questions, however.

You said of "emerging" that "it is coming up out the previous wave of ministry, but not necessarily in protest to it"

What was the previous wave of ministry?

andrew

different for every country, steve. for me it was more the seeker and church growth movement and GenX/postmodern church.

dave

Andrew, I know Im a bit behind the 8 bal but this is a a really good post - keep it up.

BTW do you know that Frost and Hirsch have each got a new book out?

andrew jones

yes - they both sent me their books. thanks dave.

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