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March 25, 2006

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Listed below are links to weblogs that reference The Missional Church: Reformed Heritage?:

» Missional Church - Part 4 from .:: exagorazo ::.
And the Obi-Wan of missional church, Andrew Jones, has now weighed in the relationship between the Missional Church and Reformed theology and heritage: [Read More]

» Missional and Reformed from Jeff Doolittle dot com
This is sure to tick off the conversationalist, emergent folk: the missional emphasis of the emerging church may have its foundations in Reformed theology. The Missional Church: Reformed Heritage? ... [Read More]

Comments

David Derbyshire

I have fond memories of discussing 'Evangelism and the Sovereignty of God' (Jim Packer?) in my CU days back in the 80s.

Bryan Halferty

Andrew, thanks for this. As a person with strong reform leanings and a heart for lost people it resonates.

I'll have a link at my blog.

Negrito

Andrew,

I am a big fan of your blog. This is the first time I have responded.

I don't think we need to have such a dichotomy between participation and inovation. God invites us to be part of his mission and in doing so asks us to use our creativity to fulfil the great commission. This is a dialogue not a dichotomy. I believe that we need to ask God what He is doing and join Him in doing it. But this doesn't excuse us to allow the kind of God-will-do-it-all, I don't need to move unless he writes it in the sky inactivisim that Carey was so opposed to.

andrew

I agree entirely with you and am glad you see it.

But the place of the church and its strategies has been a big issue over these last 50 years. I think it will continue to be a point of tension in the future.

Dan Passerelli

Andrew,
In your exploration of reformed theology/missional church connections, have you run across any of Harvie Conn's work? Harvie was Professor of Missions at Westminster Seminary in Philadelphia, though he passed away before I was a student there. I've been strongly influenced by his teaching on the missional nature of the incarnation, among other things.

Jamie Arpin-Ricci

I find similar themes throughout the writings of C. Baxter Kruger- that is the emphasis on the sovereignty of the Triune God in the area of mission.

In closing you quote from MacKay:

"The role of the missionary society, and the meaning of missionary vocation will be re-thought."

I am curious as to how you might see this play itself out. Many "missionary socieites" or so called "para-church" organizations are deeply entrenched in our culture, often leading this missional shift.

Do you believe these expressions will reintegrate with the local church (however that might look)? Or do you see them gaining a renewed and acknowledged position as Church (or an expression no more or less significant than the local church)?

Peace,
Jamie Arpin-Ricci
www.emergentvoyageurs.blog.com

andrew

jamie

that question deserves its own blog post and i have been giving it some thought already.

i feel like i am part of two overlapping worlds - the old and the new.

overseas missions has been influenced by a church emphasis (church planting movements, etc) but the church back home has more recently been influenced by mission - leading to the current "missional" phenomenon. i would expect to see more urban monastic structures alongside ecclesiastic structures in the countries that have been traditionally seen as "sending" countries.

Parachurch groups will increasingly see themselves as "church" which will create tension with supporting churches but will provide different models of church for a complex society.

what do you think?

andrew

dan - i never met Harvie, although i had heard his name often, but it seems he really did leave a great legacy.
i was just reading of him here on Banner of Truth.

Jason Robertson

Andrew, sorry but we didn't receive your comment. We are afraid that Blogger may have had some problems recently that affected us. We are currently looking into changing our commenting service to a more reliable service. But thanks for tying, and if you try again we will post it. In the future if you have any problems, send me an email and we will check it out. Oh, and about the cats... its the hairball thing that is just disgusting.

-------
Tallskinnykiwi:

and dogs slobber.. .

no problem with the comment . .. understood . . . that is one reason why i left blogger for typepad. forgive me if i thought you avoided the comment (it did cross my mind - my bad).

btw - i used haloscan for comments while on blogger and was NOT happy with it. i dont know of a good system to recommend - maybe someone out there could recommend something?????????

Scott Hill

Andrew your comment was not ingored. Unfortunatley we have recently found out that since we started moderating comments we have been losing many of them. Hopefully that will be resolved soon. You are not the first one to feel ignored by Fide-O.

Tim Keller

Andrew--I've always thought that Lesslie Newbigin's work was seminal to the whole missional/emerging church movement, and he was deeply Reformed. But, frankly, the emerging church has been just as shaped by the Hauerwas/Anabaptist model of church-as-culture. Newbigin and Hauerwas do not, on the surface, appear all that compatible, but if you swirl them together you can account for an awful lot of the missional/emerging church emphases.

--------------------------------------
[[[[[ Tallskinnykiwi: Thanks Tim. When i put "reformed" and "missional" together in my mind, your work on Missional Church comes to mind.
I did not mention Newbigin here because in the 50's, he was still in India and he had not yet made his mark - something he did later when he returned to England. He was, however, present at Willingen in 1952 and was one of the 9 presenters whose contribution made it into my book. His address was an eschatological speech entitled "The Christian Hope"
Newbigin was the stepping stone to "missio dei" for many of us in the 90's, but Newbigin actually makes little mention of Missio Dei in his work, remained more Christocentric than Trinitarian, and was less overtly Reformed than Dr Mackay, who at the time was President of Princeton Theological Seminary.

I wonder what happened to the eschatological focus that gave impetus to both the 20th Century missions movement (from the Missionary Convention in Edinburgh, 1910) and the parallel Fundamentalist movement that began publishing The Fundamentals in the same year. It seems both have let that focus on the return of Christ become less important. Missiologists are less motivated by eschatology and Fundamentalists have become more generous and open in shaping a post-Hal-Lindsay eschatological emphasis. Any thoughts?]]]]]

Scott Hill

Is there a difference in missional and emergent or have the two terms now become one in the same?

--------
Tallskinnykiwi: Good question, Scott. I have answered it here but in a nutshell, the words are very different yet some of us prefer to keep them together. Missional speak of the motivation behind us and Emergent refers to the nuts and bolts of ministering contextually, Biblically and prophetically to the emerging culture in front of us.
Missional is a church term that is easy to track and define. Emergent is a word used in many different disciplines and is harder to define in terms of Christian ministry. Steve Johnson's book Emergence is a good place to start - it tracks emergent thinking and emergent behavior (ants in Proverbs 6:6) and explains how emergent theory deals with the self-organization behaviour in moving from chaos to order without heirarchaical command structures.
Or read my thoughts on "emergent church" here on "Emergant".

Dr Steve Taylor of New Zealand says "we are missional BEFORE we are Emergent"

Dave Lynch

Here's a great way to get involved in a conversation around Emergent and Reformed...join the Free Church of Scotland Forum, but be respectful, I am having some good conversations, but then again I do live in the heartland of Reformed Theology in Scotland.

http://www.fcosonline.org/

Scot McKnight

Andrew,
I agree with Keller: the missional emergent foci are only tangentially Reformed. There is a radical low-churchness about emerging that cannot be accounted for with Reformed; and the trinitarian emphasis, depending upon whom one draws from, could be classically creedal, Eastern Orthodox (if the emphasis is thrown onto perichoresis as it is with Stan Grenz), or Reformed.

And the holistic emphasis, though one can find such in the Kuyperian line of thinking, seems to derive from a variety of sources, not the least of which is liberation theology and the social justice emphases of Wallace, Sider, and the like.

Maybe I just haven't seen it, but I don't see that much emphasis on the sovereignty of God but more on the necessity of striving.

Jamie Arpin-Ricci

Andrew,

I have found it interesting to see several "missions agencies" and/or "parachurch orgs" move from missions to mission/missional. Where the Church is rediscovering mission at its core, missionaries are finding "church" at their core.

You said: "Parachurch groups will increasingly see themselves as 'church' which will create tension with supporting churches but will provide different models of church for a complex society."

I think this is very true. I am have always found the modality/sodality concept helpful in this regard. However as this historical/ecclesiological "missional schism" heals, the tensions you mention (and many more) will call for a great deal of grace and creativity.

I look forward to your post on the topic. I am considering one myself.

Peace,
Jamie

andrew

thanks Jamie.

I find the Celtic model particularly relevant - and its interesting that the Celts reversed the modality/sodality model . . ie, their modality (primary structure) was the monastery while their sodality (secondary, second decision structures) were the churches than were planted. This is the opposite of what we have historically seen but might be a way of the future.

Scot
appreciate the thoughts. what you say about "emergent" is true - the impact of the anabaptist and other more practical influences in the area of strategy, including the Catholic understanding of "indigenization" and protestant "contextualization" are all streams that have influenced it. But, as i say, the word "emergent" or "emerging" is a whole world unto itself.

but if we stick to the word "missional", which is what this post is concerned with, we are directly connected to the impact of "missio dei" (Hartenstein, 1953) and the conference in Willingen (1952) under Mackay's watchful reformed eye, and a host of others who were finding ways to bring the soveriengty of the Triune God to bear on the way we view mission, thus shaping in a very radical way, the missiology of the 20th Century.

tell you what - i will change the title from "emerging-missional" to "missional" so there is no confusion.

Jamie Arpin-Ricci

Andrew,

Fascinating! Can you recommend any books or online resources on this topic? This would be particularly interesting insofar as my research about the similarity between Celtic Christianity and the emerging indigenous theology of the First Nations people (aka "Native America").

Peace,
Jamie

joe

"A Presbyterian is a Baptist with an education," is apparently as true over the Pond as it is in the American Bible Belt!

lammert

Hi Andrew,
It has been a while. I come from solid reformed roots and might not have always fully appreciated it. However, the other day I finished a book from Carl Raschke called "next reformation; why evangelicals should embrace postmodernety." The book is a wee bit difficult to read but I really like this quote: "“Along with the Reformers of the sixteenth century we must again exclaim, “Back to the Bible!” But we must insist, as the reformers themselves did, on a hermeneutic of Scripture and a habit of theological thinking that truly allows God to be God; which generates righteousness through faith alone; which embraces the Word as living power and presence of the ONE who gave life for us; which trusts on the revelation of the Spirit that searches our hearts and forces us to our knees in repentance of our intellectual pride and arrogance!”
--Carl Raschke, the next reformation".
Anyway, I think Carl Raschke is saying that the early reformers were more postmodern than they were modern... interesting thought, i think.

keep up your good work.

Lammert

Doug Gay

More on Newbigin - although in India he came back to Scotland in 1952/3 and delivered the Kerr? Lectures at Glasgow University on ecclesiology - they were published as The Household of God by SCM and are still a stunning read. I think Lindbeck said this was one of the most important books on ecclesiology in the 20th C. Among other things they include a prophetic call to recognise the importantance of Pentecostalism as an 'emerging' third force in Western Christianity.
But Newbigin is also very influenced by Barth here and at this time is also engaged in a close dialogue with T.F. Torrance about the nature of mission and church.

andrew

wow - doug - and people were saying your Ph.D studies in Glasgow would amount to nothing . . . . and now here you are contributing - who would have thought.

that book is out of print (i will hunt it down) but i found a good PDF paper that has some info on the Kerr lectures. I need to follow that up. It appears he was responding to Hoekendijk's ecclesiology - someone who was also at Willingen with him.

Nick Ryan

I don't see how your articles backs up your claims that the emergent movement's emphasis on missions mainly comes from the reformed tradition? There is a myriad of missions focused idividuals and enitities throught the centuries, but how can you locate the source or "roots". Furthermore, we all know that the missions emphasis of the current Church (emergent or non-emergent) primarily and ultimately comes directly from Jesus. So why herald human influences on what is GOD'S world movement? I think this kind of talk can only cultivate more division and pride in our doctrines and affiliations.

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