my experience with the charismatic catholics

i just had a really amazing experience. A few days ago i preached at a charismatic catholic church in bari, italy. it was only for 10 minutes and i was not the only person behind the pulpit . . . but this experience was huge for me and i want to process it a little here in the blog. do you mind hearing me out? it would help me to have someone listen.

don't i look sharp in a white shirt???? even without my hat, which, by the way, got left behind in Dublin last week.
This is the official photo of our team with Father Matteo and Father Anthony. you will see that i am just slightly taller than Marc van der Woude . . . a well established fact that he will no doubt dispute.

Matteo proves his charasmatic credentials with a vigorous hand waving.

Technorati Tags: catholic, charasmatic

I was not brought up charismatic. But as a missionary, you go and preach where you are told and i ended up in quite a few unusual pentecostal situations all over Latin America, some too quirky to describe here on my blog. I used to preach against the charasmatics, back when i was young and knew everything, but meeting them in person [and preaching in their churches] broke down my stereotypes and arguments against them.

when i was really young, i was told that all catholics were going to hell - just like americans. i have since changed my mind after meeting believers from both camps (catholics and americans) without horns and without the mark of the beast on their forehead. There was a time when, in my zeal, I left gospel tracts inside Catholic hymnals and placed them under the windshield wipers of Catholic's cars while they were in Mass. I had some apologizing to do.

We were honest with Father Matteo about our fundamentalist backgrounds [except marc vdw] and he completely understood and received us graciously. What a lovely guy! As well as being the Priest at Comunita di Jesu, he is the President of the Catholic Fraternity International and a Mac user (15" powerbook). We met in his office and he told the story of the Vatican's acceptance of the charismatic movement inside the RCC, a movement that numbers around 120 million.

i think this picture is the Pope asking for Matteo's blessing. The Cardinals probably have this poster on the wall at the Vatican which they show off proudly.

The church service was exactly identical to any charismatic church service anywhere - which actually is not my preference, but it was familiar territory. My only regret was that i did not know as many Hillsong choruses as they did and was not able to sing along. "Majesty" by Jack Hayford I did know. Everyone knows that one.

Dang! I am too young to have wrinkles! I am the same age as Jonny Depp and Brad Pitt. Life is not fair . . can anyone recommend a cream??? No . . . on the other hand . .. just don't talk about it. Anyway, Andreas led the people in a prayer for European countries. I sat next to Father Carlo Colonna (Society of Jesus). Lovely guy, a Jesuit Priest, who has written many theological books.

Reinhold brought an apology for his previous prejudices and anti-catholic biases, but he was speaking for all of us. Afterwards, Matteo also apologized for "mythologies" against Protestants. We embraced each other as brothers in one family.

This is a little movie of Reinhold and Mattheo hugging each other after asking forgiveness for not acting like a Christian family. I cut the sound out because there was so much noise.

At the end of the service they prayed for us and one lady came forward with a reading from the last part of Ezekiel - the gates of the city and the presence of God. It was a fantastic time for all of us. If you click on that image you will see how many people were weeping.

Our translator (also in a white shirt) was Epicscopal Priest Anthony Palmer of The Ark Community, an "An Ecumenical Christian Convergent Community within the Celtic Anglican Tradition". Tony looked after us during our stay in Italy and we had dinner a few times with his family. Tony's wife, Emily, is a goth believer so we had lots to talk about.

Despite being warmly received by the charismatic Catholics, Reinhold is still a Protestant. And our Catholic friends are still Catholic. No one is trying to proselytize anyone else. We are all learning how to follow Jesus together.

This is our version of the Popemobile. To keep Reinhold humble, we allowed him to ride in the boot of the car. And also because there were too many of us.

this experience was a huge jump for me and i am a little scared about posting the story here. i had never even been to a charasmatic catholic church before and really have not had any contact with Catholics. Its possible that i will lose a few friends over this "eccumenical" move, including some dear fundamentalist teachers from my Bible College days who will be horrified to hear this. You might be horrified also and you are welcome to leave some harsh comments below, if that will help you process it.

Or . . . like me . . you may be happy to hear that some of us are responding to Jesus prayer that we might be one, so that the world will hear.
I want the world to hear . . . so I need to be part of the solution that sees Christ body starting living together now, in preparation for the life to come. Even if that means breaking some of my own taboos.

Comments

[ally simpson]

Tony man i am, as you maybe know from the "uber-protestant" and not so ecumenically minded co.antrim in N.irleland..................i manage the local faith mission bookshop and to do what you just did would lose me my job........if i was sure what you did was right and wanted to agree with you...............my tendency is however to encourage you and tell you i will pray for you as you adapt to this new experience and the effects it may have on you..............
This little corner of the earth is blighted by catholic/protestant bitterness. I was raised in a "brethren" background and was also taught that catholics were going to hell and that they would spawn the antichrist.....................now that i have got to know one of our local priests as he calls into the shop i kinda realise that this mis-conception is rather crazy..........anyway, i have blabbered enough............may the Lord bless you Tony

[fresno dave]

non-harsh appreciation for a great and bold posting.

-a saved american

[Will Kinchlea]

I've been blessed to know some very christ-living catholics in my day, and very early on in my journey, I came to realize that most catholics are incredibly similar to most 'protestants'. Just sitting around church, doing their time, as it were. Those who wish to know Christ will know him. A friend once told me a story of finding the only church in town with a 'healing service' was the catholic church that everyone railed against. Go Figure.

Catholics? I like 'em.

[andrew (tall skinny kiwi)]

hey - thanks!!

and ally, my name is andrew. our translator was tony.

[Andrew B]

Dear Andrew,

I am glad you made the breakthrough. I think the basic point is that everyone who accepts Jesus, the Son of God, as Lord may receive the Holy Spirit and become a citizen of the Kingdom. And there are no denominational conditions attached.

Living in Dublin, Ireland in the 1970's (I am older than you, but I think I have fewer wrinkles, however you are suffering the harsh climate of the Orkney Islands!) I was introduced to the Holy Spirit by Catholic charismatics.

I grew up in Scotland, which, as you know, is a fine Presbyterian country. In my childhood our family church was a Baptist church. The minister there who most impressed me in my childhood became a Roman Catholic after he retired. He was one of those rare Christians who can be characterised as 'holy'. As a student in Belfast, Northern Ireland, I was baptised in the Anglican (Church of Ireland) student chaplaincy.

Some years later, when we were living in Dublin, the "charismatic renewal" movement rolled through the country. The old Quaker meeting house in the centre of Dublin was packed out on Friday evenings with "praise and worship" meetings. From there we were invited to a series of seminars on "Life in the Spirit". These were run by a Catholic Charismatic Community, "The Light of Christ", and were a series of teachings on the Holy Spirit as revealed in the Bible with emphasis on God's promises and on the "gifts of the Spirit" as manifest in Acts and onwards in Paul's letters. The culmination of the seminars was prayer for receiving of the Spirit and the sign we were all hoping for was the gift of tongues.

Following that experience we tagged along with the Light of Christ for several years -the only Protestants in the whole community.

Sunday afternoons were the big community fest. We celebrated mass in a school gym hall. Usually a great party which sometimes broke into a greeting and reconciliation riot when the priest invited us to offer one another a sign of peace.

So in my book, believing Roman Catholics definitely are Christians and a highly structured liturgical service can be great way to worship God and be church when it is filled with the Spirit.

Greetings,
Andrew B

[+ Alan]

Great stuff Andrew. Thanks for sharing this story. Many need to hear it - and coming from you it will go far for them.

[Mark Berry]

My Father once went to a COnference of European Evangelicals... the worship was what you might expect at hat kinda gathering... anyway next to my Dad was this little white haired chao who was really giving it some in a Charismatic Stylee... You know hands up in the air, hopping from one foot to the other, comb over blowing in the wind of the Spirit... when it came to the customery ritual humiliation... 'Turn to someone you don't know'... it only turns out that this little bundle of energy was the Vatican Chaplain... the Popes Priest! Just goes to show that even Catholics can get sucked into this kinda nonsense ;-)

On a more serious note... why is it such a radical thought that some Catholics may actually be Christians??? If I were the judgemental type I might have similar concerns about many Pew-warmers in the Protestant and Anglican churches! At least the habitually Catholic make more effort than their Protestant and Anglican counterparts!

[Gabi]

Harsh comments??? Your heart is like a piece of butter. Thank you for this meaningful, warm post. It blessed me. I'm learning similar lessons, it's very much needed. That hug heals many!!!

[Isaac]

I got to spend a lot of time with charasmatic catholics this year in Paris. I have to admit, I'm generally pretty impressed... Sometime I think that in Latin Europe, the Catholic church feels a lot more relevant and less distanced from the culture than the evangelical and protestant churches.

[Makeesha]

Andrew that is so awesome! I'm charismatic so of course I have to chuckle at your honest comments. My husband's spiritual mom in college was a nun - a charismatic RC nun who is now the director of a mission hospital in Tanzania. She is an amazing woman. I'm endlessly pleasantly surprised at the diversity in God's Kingdom and I have learned to fully embrace it and enjoy it. Praise God that you had such a wonderful experience. I have not been to an official charismatic catholic service but I would love to.

[Chris(tine)]

Beautiful!

[Holy Experience]

I am surprised at my reaction: tears. Of Joy...

[ally simpson]

lol yea andrew man i know i messed up on the name!!! I have been reading your blog for a year now so should know but i typed the post up and pressed "post" , read it back and went "what the ?????? who's tony?"

sorry mate.................

[amber]

I really needed to hear an encouraging story of unity in Christ today and this definitely fits the bill. What a beautiful story. Thank you *so* much for sharing this.

[Heather Miller]

It is awesome & beautiful to hear this, and very encouraging indeed. I am thankful for you posting this, and am honestly very hopeful that this will help open the hearts and help stop division in the church....It's all about the Trinity...

There's a lot of tough walls Jesus wants to burst through, tear down and blow away. I pray God will be heard through your experience.

[Marc]

Thx Andrew for this posting. Felt less in an apology mode myself, but appreciated the dialogue, and trust it will help us focus on Christ instead of dividing traditions.

And just for the record: I'm 2.00 meters, you are 1.99. We did the final draw in South Africa last February, and I won. You may have forgotten that, because you can't get over it, but that's ok. I love you anyway.

[carmen]

i grew up in Anabaptist (Mennonite) in the American South West, with two Jesus-loving, disciple-making parents who saw a Franciscan nun for spiritual direction. i didn’t know about the Catholics-can’t-be-Christians thing until i got older. my experience bears out like Will’s above: i too find a striking similarity between many Catholics and Protestants, “just sitting around church, doing their time” as well as many that know Jesus in both camps. blessings.

[Daniel]

I recently returned from Indonesia where I spent some time with the Filipino community (my fiancée is Filipino). I attended Catholic mass every Sunday and went to Couples for Christ and Youth for Christ (Catholic version) bible study meetings right after the Sunday morning service. These meetings were 4 hours long and there was intense passion and fervour to hear the word of God and learn about Him. It was a direct contrast to the Catholic community that I had been brought up in here in Australia. I didn’t even know the basic meaning of Christ’s death until I went to a charismatic Pentecostal church at the age of 19. I felt so bitter toward the Catholics at that stage. But my recent visit to Indonesia changed that.

[Dana Ames]

Andrew, your wrinkles are the "smiley" kind and only show more of your character :)

Love the vision you express, not only your own, but that of all those who participated. Praise God.

Dana

[robbie]

Wow, that's all I can say. You are really brave. I live and do youth ministry on the boarder of mexico, and things here are very devisive. All the Protestants here think that all Catholics are going to hell and it's very frustrating to see kids not be friends with other kids, because of their so-called differences. I'm deffinitely going to try and find a CCC and encourage some of my students to try it.

[Jon Harris]

I just returned from the west coast of Ireland, filming for a small project with the Catholic Bishops' Conferences of Ireland, Scotland and England & Wales called Day for Life.

We have also been podcasting a couple of bishops and an archbishop, which is fun. :)

It struck me how deeply Catholicism is embedded in the Irish culture. Our B&B in Ballina was next door to the cathedral, and during our three days there, we saw a hive of activity every day, at all times of day, with people of all ages.

This made me wonder how God will renew Catholicism. I found myself reasoning that God must have a plan and desire to bless Catholics the world over, just like any group of people, and I am intrigued to discover what that is. If God loves Ireland, he must have a plan that embraces and blesses Catholic people.

Perhaps what you have posted Andrew is a part of that. Perhaps too technology can play a role by changing the rules of the game (the great people we have worked with on Day for Life have felt inspired, even set free, by using new media). Perhaps we should pray more specifically and more often that we, somehow, can all be one.

[Tim the Enchanter]

You're going to burn in hell.

(only kidding!)

[John]

Wow, what a love fest of comments. I just wanted to be the first to say...

YOU'RE ALL GOING TO HELL!!!

Not because I really feel that way, but b/c I think Andrew might be a disappointed if no one did. :)

Great post. And the comments so far are also very encouraging.

[dave]

As a kiwi who was brought up Brethren, then went to an Anglican church, while volunteering for YFC at a Baptist hall before attending Elim briefly then going to the Assemblies of God, its good to see you so ecumenical. While working for the Salvation Army and writing for a Presbyterian newspaper I married a Catholic and now don't go to church much at all.

It's good to see these denomination barriers broken down like the Berlin wall. Keep it up.

[dave]

.. oh, and I should say that the charismatic catholics are the best ones.