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October 16, 2006

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» TSK On Living Church from Big Pappa
I was reading Andrew Jones´ (a.k.a. Tall Skinny Kiwi) blog this morning and I really enjoyed it. It talks of living church. What he talks of here resonates with me. This is the approach to church that I feel most [Read More]

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» tiny, the new small...from Tall Skinny from the Weary Pilgrim
This post from Andrew Jones, I think casts more light into my previous entry, Emergent gardeners...in spirit and truth. Andrew talks about tiny as being the new small. I think there is more going on today than we realize, so [Read More]

» tiny, the new small...from Tall Skinny from the Weary Pilgrim
This post from Andrew Jones, I think casts more light into my previous entry, Emergent gardeners...in spirit and truth. Andrew talks about tiny as being the new small. I think there is more going on today than we realize, so [Read More]

Comments

G'day Andrew,

Twice recently I have had people in my church say to me, "I like our church. It's small and like a family." One part of me leaps with joy and says, "Great, they have found their spiritual home on earth." Another part of me gets angry because of the self-ceneredness of such a statement - like there's no room here now for new people.

Wayne

hi Wayne.

we both know that God wants his house to be full. I believe multiplication is better than addition. There is always room at the table for new people but those new people should be learning to transform their own houses into lighthouses. People need to pass it forward and not get addicted to having someone else do it all for them.

does that line up with your thinking?

Hi Andrew

I guess both you and Richard are aware that this is 'my bag', as you put it, so keep me posted and count me in if there's ways I can hook up with what you're doing.

Cheers

Great post, wise, concise, clear, inspiring, humble and educating. This is why I keep coming back for more at tallskinikiwi.

Our cafe Terra Nova is church on the periferal. we are small church, happening in Santiago over coffee, beer, or meals in our homes and those of others. We are looking for EU volunteers and praying for God to save the cafe. We are understaffed and overworked. If you know willing servants who habla espanol please put the word out!
Gracias tio por todo que haces aqui!!

In the USA there are far more churches that have more in common with your kitchen gathering than the "successful" gathering that get the press. I believe that there qare over 100,000 church that are 50 or less. No granted they are generally not missional and have a host of other issues. The church I serve is at the 80th percentile, and we are only 260 on average.

It would be the height of arrogance to assume that all who seek Jesus will fit into the traditional paradigm of the church. House churches, or however they are described are going to increase. As they should.

Hi Andrew, I have been lurking at the edges of your blog for a while... but now it is time to stick my hand up and say...
this is definitely my bag!
i am involved in something that is exploring this way of being church and it is great/challenging/un-nerving/exciting/tiny.
so yes please get in touch, and would love to help if i can.
PS we do have a blog but kinda wanna keep it private, that ok?

Hey Andrew,
I would love to be involved in something like what you've just described, even if only from the peripheral to watch how you guys work/think/interact/etc, as I know I'm much younger than most of the people you're probably trying to reach with this!!

are you younger/

my kids are key players in our "church" - some are teens and some younger. they are running some of the events and my son helps me teach at suddenly seminary - he has been doing that since he was about 12.

one of the greatest worship installations we did was when he designed a whole area - he was 7 at the time.

Hi Andrew

Please keep me posted as the CMS training thing develops.

Ross

I hear you Andrew - multiplication - yep.

Both of these people were newish Christians and were loving being a part of the family God always wanted them to have. Our job as their family is to disciple them out of their self-centerdness with grace.

Cheers for the reminder mate. I'm glad I logged on!

Having been a part of larger institutional churches most of my Christian life, I just recently took the started attending a simple church in the Dallas-Fort Worth area called Awakening.

I went just to explore what simple church looked like. I didn't plan to join or become part of the community. I was actually quite happy in the church I attended.

Something happened. I was completely hooked. I was refreshed. I went back the next week, then the next... I guess I really should let my old church know that I'm going to another gathering.. but I doubt they've noticed I'm not there. :)

Our weekly gathering has helped me regain my passion for Jesus like I haven't experienced in a long time.

I do ministry among the Homeless in Dallas and feel like God is leading me to explore moving beyond that into discipling and eventually starting simple churches among the homeless.

I love traditional churches, but I'm really enjoying the simple church approach.

Thanks for helping point the way. It was partly because of your posts in the past that I decided to explore the simple church model.

I'd love to be involved/informed about what you're getting together. I need a place to invest some energy.

TSK,
Thanks so much for your insight. It warms my heart. Please keep me updated with the CMS thing.
Here's the link to my blog: http://theupperroom.typepad.com

Andrew,

I was really excited to read this post when I got to work this morning. Some of my buddies and I who have been birthing these small communities for the past few years have recently recognized how the focus in the emerging church is shifting from conversation to collaboration. The collaboration, however, is very much underground, because as you have so rightly pointed out, none of us lead groups substantial enough size-wise for anyone to care. In my opinion, that is a wonderful blessing. Having "clout" usually means our kingdoms get bigger instead of God's.

Next week I'm flying to Peru to visit a new friend and his family who are starting simple churches in Arequipa. Sadly, they have been getting a lot of criticism from other missionaries / church planters, none of whom are from Peru. They are hosting a retreat for over 100 pastors and their families the week I will be there and supposedly some of these other missionaries will be in attendance. Pray I get a chance to be a bridge builder and represent what God is doing in his kingdom.

Definitely keep me posted on what you're doing next year. Sounds really interesting.

Andrew, thanks for the encouragement! I'm 19. God uses us at all ages, for which I'm thankfull. Keep me posted, would be great to be involved!

What an encouraging and timely post today. Thank you. I have been struggling knowing that it's in the small that God sees BIG, but feeling like I'm left behind, in some senses, in the ministry popularity(?) vote. Especially in the models that you've mentioned above. In reality I would rather meet people where they are and love and BE church, but somedays, like today, I appreciate the reminder. Thanks Andrew.

what your talking about just sounds so exciting and scary as anything
in my work here in the uk i really feel god calling me and my wife to reach out and build his kingdom in the estate that we live in and with the familys of young people that i work with as a youth worker.

Although the church that we are working with and are backed by supports this at times it feels like as i am a lay person my ministry and mission should be limited to just the children and young people and when it comes to adult a colar needs to be involved, the problem is the colars seem to then limit mission and ministry to doing a new family service.

I would be really interessted in finding out more about the movement and idea's about how simple churchs can be started can be outreaching, how it works as one or two in a new area wanting to reach out to new relationships and familys with the kingdom.

also could you recomend a good book as an introduction to simple church or the house church movement. i would like to read myself but i have a pastor friend who needs a good introduction to the ideas and examples as well as a couple to would be house church leaders in his flock that his interessted in releasseing as church planters who it could point in the right direction.
godbless matt

I would love to be updated and involved. We are part of a ... TINY :) church. we have two house churches, and when we meet together, it is far from traditional, I suppose.

The vision is great... the growth, not. Which can be frustrating, but at the same time, you do what you believe God is leading you towards, and allow God to do His thing! I'd love to be involved in anyway. Thanks.

hey mate

when are you coming to perth next year?

we want to have some fun with you while you're here - if you're up for it!

Hamo

Great thoughts - seems the business world is seeing the same thing as Seth Godin has recently written his book "Small is the new Big" and it talks about many of these same things.

TSK - Thanks for the clue-in on the upcoming training experiences that you and Richard White are looking into. I'd love to be involved...I was a distance-ed M.Div student until I got tired of training for a job I didn't want and didn't have enough cash at the time for what Brian Mclaren and Ron Martoia started up over at velocityculture.com. :) (though that intrigued me to no end)

blessings to you and yours

Thanks for the informative reflection on 'House Church' or 'whatever' as I call it! Very true, also enjoyed the 'no sex appeal' article. Made me laugh in regards to what you wrote about traditional church planting. That was a mirror image of what happaned to us when we planted in a traditional way in the mid 90's.

hamo - no dates in mind as yet but keep some extra charcoal handy for the bbq

jerry - my blog-post title is a spin off from Seth's book. but the church has been talking about "small" since the 70's. Tiny is different - more cellular.

and matybigfro - i still think wolfgang's first book - Houses that change the world" is the best. link to the free PDF in the post above.

andrew,
thanks for popping by the ashram recently. the resourcing ideas interest us greatly...sherry and i are in the process of birthing a forge/re:source-type project here in Lexington. we are travelling to Melbourne next year (7 month stay) to learn from Al and the Forge team about how they have done things and hopefully find a way to translate it for our context.

...and please email me if you are interested in more 'ashram' information. it has been a side-hobby for a few years and i would love to see it used again as a missional space.

peace.

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