Ecclesiastic Terrorism

[Video was taken by Brian Standerfer and is posted on his blog as "Schaffranek'd" and on YouTube.]

It happened! The church I was preaching at this morning got Schaffraneked. Horst Shaffranek's German cult that I told you about yesterday, sent followers around the UK to infiltrate churches and create a disturbance in order to deliver their prophecies. Two German ladies, followers of Horst, turned up right at the end of my sermon and as soon as I had finished, they launched into their routine . . . the same routine that has got Horst's followers kicked out of churches and events [and even a funeral] all over Europe.

Once, or so I read, they had to be escorted by police. I had thought of warning the police before the service but decided we could handle it ourselves.

Honestly . . its quite traumatic. People were really shaken up. One lady was in tears. But we were half expecting them to turn up and God had prepared us for them. As you will see in the video, I had some overhead slides on Keynote that I projected during their outburst. I didn't want to compete in a shouting contest and figured i might as well give people something to read while the ladies gave their word. I used some info from Evangelical Times as well as 4 accounts from yesterday's comments.

Here is my first slide:

One of the ladies complained that we cannot trust the internet and that this document was 2003 . .. as if being a cult in 2003 is not relevant anymore . . . but i then showed the comments that came in last night and this morning. The two German ladies were quite taken back that information about their sect/cult was displayed on the overhead. They tried handing out their literature to the church people but no one really wanted it.

I offer these same resources here in case your church gets a visit and you need some reading material for your congregation. The movies are self-playing and change slides every 20 seconds. Set them on a loop. If you are preaching, you may want to add them to the end of your presentation just in case they visit your church.

[PDF] Download horst.pdf
[Powerpoint] Download horst.ppt
[Quicktime movie] Download horst.mov
[AVI movie] Download horst.avi

The 3 elders of Stromness Baptist church were great. They had already talked to the ladies and told them they could speak after the service IF they came before the service and passed on their "prophecy" to them beforehand - something that they decided NOT to do - which actually was not a surprise to anyone here.

What really shut the ladies up was the worship leaders (Mark Shiner the harp maker and his wife Kate) starting up some vigorous singing. Mark said later that he had never heard them sing so LOUDLY!!!

Anyway, take a look at the video taken by Brian Standerfer who happened to be standing right behind them. As far as I know, this is the first video anyone has ever caught of this group's ecclesiastic terrorism in 20 years.

I spoke to them afterwards. This German lady told me I was full of sin and needed to break it in my own life. I agreed and told her I do this daily. But then she said we should be sinless, without sin because of Jesus. I asked her if she was without sin about 4 times but she never answered my question. I guess 'sinless perfection" is another of their beliefs.

Eventually they left. And when they were gone, James asked me to get up and talk to the church. Which I did, sharing what i had learned the previous day, complimenting them on the excellent way they handled themselves, and leading them in a prayer. This was quite a healing and completing kind of experience and was much needed.

Anyway, we are guessing they will hit Kirkwall Baptist tonight. Angus, the German teacher who was in our service this morning, will be at Kirkwall tonight and i am sure will be perfectly equipped to deal with them if they come and if they do their thing. And other church members have gone out to warn the other local churches. I guess the whole incident has caused us to work together as one body . .. which of course we are.

Technorati Tags: cult, orkney, schaffranek

Comments

[roger williams]

wonderfully pastoral response, preventive and deliberate vs afterthought and aggressive

bless you bro!

[rob horton]

Andrew - you are a stud!!!

[PeteLev]

Wow - they are the same ladies who we got in West London - but they were much less aggressive with us!

[Tom Götze]

The man who was trying to force them to sit down was a bit strange... But I understand his reaction somehow. Well I think you handled it well, but to be honest I wouldn't have invited them into any congregation. ;-)

[andrew]

the man who was forcing them down is a former policeman and currently a school teacher.- really nice guy who leads worship - understand the the atmosphere was very intense and freaky for those that did not know what was going on.

the other guy who says "dont touch me" is also a primary school teacher

i didnt say this but the two ladies also interrupted the childrens time of interaction and this probably also elicited a response from one of the teachers.

[Virgil]

Andrew, I feel for you. I cannot imagine speaking and being interrupted in this manner. I can't understand how anyone things that this kind of methodology is conducive to their message in any way. Amazing...

[Jeff]

Wow. My initial reaction to the video was one of tears. Not sure why excatly, I just felt an over bearing sense of fragmentation between those of us that "act" in the name of Christ. I believe the incident was handled quite well, however I feel/felt moved by what I presume to be "lostness" of the ladies speaking.

[Phil Wyman]

I have experienced a number of weird moments like this over the years. Darn - I'm jealous. This is good ol' book of Acts stuff. ;-)

I think that such experiences like this led us to a very interactive, open church model. Your people must be used to a relatively open model, because they appeared to handle this as mature, yet open Christians. The church has a wonderful way of being a self-healing organism, and a self-correcting one as well.

I only wish I could have heard what they were saying on the video. This is a good heads up for us all.

[Matt]

A worship leader with a loud guitar is useful for dealing with all kinds of interruptions. But Christmas music? Already?

[robbymac]

Wow. That's the most bizarre thing I've seen in quite a while.

The term "ecclesiastical terrorism" is very apt!

[headphonaught]

Wow... what an experience for you and the church. It was handled very well and will be stoking conversations well into the New Year.

What I appreciate from this is the way you have informed others of their ways... power the tinterweb and all that.

Blessings

[anna]

man... kuddos to ya for handling that with such grace. i'll remember to sing a christmas song too next time i find myself in a similar situation.

[[depone]]

well done andrew.

it seems to me that they are more aggressive over here in germany, but i really like the idea of being prepared and having some material on the screens.

[Mike]

Andrew, I just wanted to let you know that we will be in prayer over this. The Lord was certainly was with you during this "event".

[Matt Wiebe]

Weird.

It's great that you had the heads-up on them being around beforehand, finding out info, and that you're spreading the word around to other churches in the area. That definitely sounds like family looking out for each other.

[Steve Sensenig]

Andrew, while I certainly understand the desire of you and the elders at that church to "protect the flock", I can't help but feeling while watching this video that a process was short-circuited.

In one of your admonitions to the lady speaking, you quoted Paul's statement in 1 Cor 14 that the spirit of the prophet is subject to the prophets.

However, wouldn't you agree that, in context, that statement is made with regard to weighing prophecies that have been spoken, not in forbidding someone to speak?

In light of Paul's instructions to the church in Corinth (which it appears were what you and the others were trying to follow), wouldn't it have been more proper to let her speak, and then have the prophecy weighed by other prophets?

Sorry that my first comment here on your blog is a contradictory one. But this seemed like a necessary question to ask.

steve :)

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{TSK] Steve, yes. I am not on the leadership of this church btw. The elders gave them permission to speak as i posted earlier, under certain conditions - sharing before the service with them and then speaking to a bigger group later. But they came 15 minutes before the service ended and then broke into the end of the sermon on the first interruption and then the childrens presentation on the second.
that is not subject to anyone or anything except themselves.

the church they tried to hijack later that day were warned by our towns people and they did not allow them to speak at all, or even get near the front.

[hamo]

pretty weird stuff

what would you do differently in hindsight?

it raises some very interesting questions:

- should they have been refused permission to come?

- if so what would that say about 'the church?'

- Steve's qn is a good one too

I'd be interested in your reflections 'the day after'.

I probably wouldn't have a lot of patience for rude people interuppting me, so glad it wasn't me!

[Joe Suh]

Unbelievable... you and the congregation handled it well

[robbymac]

TSK,

Wendy & I were just re-watching the video, and Wendy reminded me that we had similar run-ins with people like that here in Canada about ten years ago. They weren't part of Horst's crew, but similar methodology, trying to use "prophecy" to hijack the service and spread their own ideas and supposed "authority".

Or just phoning people and trying to tie them up in knots with their "superior anointing" that coincidentally made all leaders jealous of them (which explained why they weren't accepted).

We discovered that even praying quietly under our breath for the silencing of unclean spirits was VERY effective in shutting them up (on the phone, anyway).

Your slides were excellent, and a brilliant way of refocusing the congregation -- but the worship leaders were even more effective!

-------
[TSK] yes - i was pretty useless in the shouting match and they did the right thing. and yes - warfare through worship was on his mind also.

[Dave]

I do not get it, the guy who physically forces one lady down and tells the other to sit down is abusing these women, and he the worship leader.

Im sorry, where is Jesus in all this, just looks like a whole load of fear manifesting itself in actual physical abuse.

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[TSK} no, Dave. he was not leading worship today. he is one of the church members and was making it clear that they should sit down - that they did NOT have permission to speak.
i should have probably yelled it more clearly from the stage because these ladies refused to stop talking . . and i am glad he did not have to carry them out.

Abuse????? no!

[Thomas Zahnd]

Hi Andrew and his church.
You and your church did a great job.
I think, the right to speak at or to the church, is a matter of deserve. Nobody has the right to stand up and "prophecy" without asking at least the pastor, or the elders for permission. Or someone who is a longtherm church member, with a history of a servant and a long list of "good" things he/she has done for people in the flock. Prophecies from someone outside the church, should only be a fact of encouragement, empowerment and confirmation and should go along with the bible.
If someone shows up in your flock, and all of a sudden attack the church with something they call prophecy, but is no ecouragement or doesn't match-up with the line the church follows. This person is an intruder and a big danger, especially if they don't recieve the request from the pastor. Such people need to be faced in a very strong way. Good to have former policemen at the church.

[bryan nixon]

That was incredible! I thought it was brilliant to begin with the singing and have everyone join them in standing. They seemed to be absorbed into the crowd when everyone stood.

Nicely done.

[Marc]

To be honest: I find the whole situation quite embarrassing, both the interruption, and the way it was handled ('oversinging it'). Think it would have been wisdom to not give them an entrance at all. Why give a platform to false teachers, people who you know are brainwashed?

Btw, I don't find Thomas' instructions very helpful. Of course prophets (or anyone sharing) should speak in a right spirit, but these guidelines are way too rigid, and also unbiblical in the way I understand the ecclesia and the prophetic ministry is meant to function.

[Carper]

Wow, that is a great way to deal with crazies. I applaud you for the way you handled the situation, It couldn't have been handled any better. Using worship music to stop them from spreading lies.

[Graham Doel]

Thanks for sharing that with us, I appreciate your openness. My prayers are with you and the church as you continue to reflect.

(BTW It doesn't look like abuse from the church to the "invaders" it looks like the "invaders" abused a community.)