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July 28, 2009

Comments

Paul

Real words of wisdom! Thanks for sharing this, Andrew.

Josh Rhone

Andrew,

I've always been intrigued by technology and its many uses. On the one hand, it is incredibly exciting to see the rise of virtual churches, as people tap into the new resources for ministry that are now widely available.

Yet, on the other hand, I'm not sure what to think of the whole scenario. Oftentimes, it seems as if these churches are planted overnight without much consideration of theology/ecclesiology. Rather, the virtual is perceived as an environment which is working- so we might as well jump headlong into things.

All this to say that I greatly appreciate your post. It is both thoughtful and thought-provoking. As I continue to wrestle with the idea of virtual communities, I'm sure that your post will be one that I visit time and again.

Don

I have a friend who is young would love to go to church but has very ill children. I am going to get her pluged into vertual church, but one thing church has that you miss from just watching a message. That is community, and I prayed over this, how do we bring the community of believers into the home of those watching. One way I see is to do weekly remotes from their home, something extra only seen on vurtual church. The second idea and wow its a big scale.. Having teams of voluteers from our church, and other churches who would go out weekly or upon request to visit those in their homes (whereever they are).. They could pray with, give communion, be a friend and bring the Love of Christ right to their door.. Thank u for all you do.

Greg in Mexico

Virtual reality has also affected war. Here's a personal account of a US Air Force pilot who flew combat missions in Iraq & Afghanistan but then was transferred over to the Predator fleet. Now, instead of actually flying over hostile territory, he sits in an air-conditioned base in Florida in front of a screen guiding an aircraft thousands of miles away. This change brought personal struggles - is he still a combat pilot even though he's no longer in danger? What do his buddies who are still flying combat missions think of him now? In this article he comes to grips with being a "virtual warrior":

http://smallwarsjournal.com/blog/2009/07/back-to-basics/

John Dyer

Great post. I like how you surfaced the fact that questions about on-line churches (like communion) often reflect back on the practices of the off-line church.

Regarding those passages in Hebrews, I wonder if we are confusing things by using the 'spiritual, universal' nature of the universal Church as a metaphor for understanding virtual churches. I realize that the spiritual world and the virtual world are both in some sense 'invisible', but beyond that I think comparison of the two is probably more confusing than unhelpful. If the church is spiritual, and spiritual = virtual, is God then virtual?

I totally agree that technological interactions are 'real' I just want don't want us to confuse the virtual world with spirituality. Of course, I know that's not what you were trying to do...

andrew

hi john. what i like about Hebrews is that it shows us the standard for measuring what is legitimate and what is real - in this case, the invisible reality of God's design. So many people say that online church is not real because it is dissimilar to physical material building centered worship. But both of these must look beyond themselves to see what they point to.

Laura

Andrew,

Good discussion of the reality of the virtual world (though I echo John and caution against confusing virtual and spiritual). Virtual and actual churches have danger zones. For the virtual church, the danger is forgetting the physical. We are embodied and gathering as bodies is important. For the actual church, the danger is forgetting the spiritual. We are souls and spiritual connection is important.

I have frequent virtual fellowship (though not as part of an official on-line church), but the in-person gatherings I have with my fellows is critical to my life as a Jesus follower.

Chris Goan

Hi Andrew

(Welcome back by the way!)

I have thought a lot about the issue of virtual church- possibly because our situation (isolated small town Scotland) means that finding connection with others on the fringes of organised religion has made on line stuff extremely important.

However, the problem for me is that the nature of on line 'community' (for me) has serious deficiencies. That is not to say it is not useful, but that it is limited.

1. It is ephemeral- most online networking things start well, then fade and die very quickly.
2. On line relationships lack all sorts of nuances and complications present in face to face ones. Less messy, but perhaps also less human.
3. On line communication tends to allow for people to fire off and flare up, then withdraw with apparently no damage done. It might even foster a certain kind of dehumanisation along with the obvious detatchment? Contrast this with on-line therepeutic interventions. There has been some success with fairly one dimensional CBT programmes, but beyond this, it just don't work.
4. Community seems to me to be the painful-glorious-life affirming place where we practice becoming the beloved of Jesus. It is where we knock spots off one another, but then learn again to love. It is about the long haul, the fostering of love that costs. It is perhaps also about an arm around the shoulder. A virtual arm may do if there is no real one- but I would so much rather have a real one.
5. Community is also about service. On line stuff often seems to me about convenience and a kind of narcisistic portability. It is easily self centred, not other-centred. This is not restricted to on line church, but I would contend that this makes the problem more real. How can we serve if there is no cost- particularly cost in terms of time and companionship.
6. At it's heart, community needs to be hosted and nursed and fostered. Most people who are good at this (in my experience) are not the people that have much interest in the on line stuff.

I have come to realise that I need both- but I need the real stuff much more.

Cheers

Chris

www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=545161266

I have been a Christian for 34 years, and have a very bad church attendance record. Why?

Because I am a nurse/midwife and hospital rota came before the preaching, coffee, sunday school and anything else.

I desperately wanted to get involved but those seen as 'reliable' dominate the precious institution positions. The same I have found now in virtual churches.

I found a release in virtual reality. I do not 'do' a church but created a virtual garden in second life with scriptures I have placed in objects. Thus calling this 'Scripted Scriptures'

I love my brothers and sisters in Christ but once the 'institution' gives them perceived authority some actually are really hard to deal with. Even being asked to leave a church in the East End of London.

I do not enjoy but prefer being on the fringes and technically 'dechurched'.

God Bless.
Lorraine

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