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November 02, 2009

Comments

Michal Popiela

With some guys here we've been pretty excited about 'The Fourth Turning' by William Strauss and Neil Howe for the the last year or so. Their theory claims that history is organised in 'saecula' (ages), each about 80 yrs long. During each 'saeculum' there's crisis (winter) and spiritual revival (summer). They checked their theory against anglo-american history and of course it worked perfectly ;)

Anyway, your prediction fits well to what those two historians wrote. Winter's coming (like it did in Oct '29), and various institutions (including church) start to behave winter-like. So, I don't know if you're right or wrong, but at least you're supported by two influential authors. Greetings from Poland!

twitter.com/pubpastor

I think you are absolutely right. Thanks for laying it out like this. Bonhoeffer's "Life Together" might as well be a manual for emergent communities and his critique of the institutional church (which failed horrendously in responding to the crisis of their day and ended up furthering the Nazi cause) is spot on as well.

Pam Smith

Yes - that feels about right. It's clear that there's a lot of energy for mission that can't and shouldn't be contained by current church structures.

I'm starting to see the inability of the central hierarchies to finance mission as part of what's meant to be happening.

ISTM that authority - in terms of having an accountability structure and knowing where you are sourced - has got mixed up with finances so the central financing of ministry has resulted in an overly controlling way of structuring it.

cathryn Thomas

well you do have a PROPHETIC GIFT!!!!- insight and wisdom as well. It's a good combo..... blessings dude.
xok8

becky

I agree with Cathryn - what will be interesting to see is what happens to those ministries who do not heed your prophetic wisdom.

To this I would add your earlier predictions that we're moving to neighborhood network models and online modalities (e.g., Nines Conference) with the infrequent in person gathering events (e.g., Slot, Greenbelt) in lieu of the economically and environmentally unsustainable preacher fests (your phrase not mine) - this all goes to your comments about creating more horizontal leaderships where writers like myself function more as scribes and storytellers instead of being the story ourselves.

Jonathan Stegall

Amazing stuff, Andrew. I can't express how much these thoughts mean to me, especially:

Emerging church energies will be re-directed from creative worship arts to creative social enterprises which will enable long term sustainability. In both realms, women will come to the front as some of the most successful missional entrepreneurs.

It really revives a lot of my hope to see things like that. I've tried to structure my life so I can move into areas like that and these specific words express a lot of what I'd love to move into, but it does take a lot longer than I'd like and sometimes gets discouraging (as opposed to doing things more traditionally, I guess). So thank you.

daniel de w

But in the 30's there was also the rise of facism. And how did churches react on that? Too many were sympetatic or silent.

Tsk

Another good reason to read Bonhoeffer

Becky Garrison

Andrew - another trend I'm seeing is a return to mysticism - look at how many communities are developing rules of life, prayer books, etc. Now with that is coming a slew of crapola as some folks think they discovered "doubt" for the first time - sort of like the songs penned by teenagers who just got born again. But books like "God of Intimacy and Action" (Tony Campolo and Mary Darling) seek to marry social justice and contemplation - Richard Rohr's stuff on this subject is pretty amazing on this front as well.

David Derbyshire

I am interested in how churches could be like mini credit unions. Are you just thinking of them giving interest free loans or something more such as people paying in money that they could draw out in the future?

tsk

One of the Baptist churches I pastored had over 400 people involved in 40 different crafts, arts and artisan skills. Some turned their new skills into a micro-business. But we could have gone one step further by enabling each other to launch out fully through small loans.

There are some good examples in overseas mission of this working well. Father Topshee recommended 100 people as the minimum number required to start your own credit union which could move a whole community towards sustainability.
The advice of Henry Venn of CMS on missions starting credit unions and microbusinesses is worth reading. i have some thoughts on it here.

AnnekaHannah

I agree with most of that- I already see some of that happening. But surely there will be down-sides to all of this good stuff- wouldn't it be more "prophet-like" (at least if you're following the Biblical prophets) to warn the church of the traps that will be fall into examining the mistakes of the 1930s church?

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